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Have you ever wondered how the wrath of God fits within the Love of God?
If “God is love” as the Bible says, is God’s wrath an expression of His Love?
Have we been looking at wrath and judgement and even hell with the wrong paradigm all along?
These questions and more are the subject of this interview with Paul Young the author of the Shack, Crossroads, Eve, and Lies we Believe about God. Paul has been a major influence in my life. The Shack gave me a liberating new perspective on who God really is. I began to experience God, His love and his grace in beautiful ways ever since.
Forgiveness in The Shack
In the interview I talk about my own experience of how reading the Shack helped to heal my relationship with my father.
Here is the forgiveness scene from the movie The Shack between Mac and his dad:
In the movie the Shack there is another beautiful scene where Papa is encouraging Mac to forgive. Papa wanted to free Mac from the enslavement and self inflicted torture that unforgiveness brings.
“So you would just let him get away with it?” Mac asks.
Papa responds, “Nobody gets away with anything. Everything bears consequences. I’m not asking you to excuse what he did. Im asking you to trust me to do whats right and know what’s best. Forgiveness doesn’t establish relationship. It is about letting go of his throat.”
God loves us all unconditionally. He desires to redeem his lost son, the murderer, just as much as he does for Mackenzie. Watch the scene here:
“There is no one beyond God’s reach of redemption.” (Quote from my song Unfailing Love, from the Reflect Love album.)
Who is God, What is “He” Like, and Can we get along?
Jesus gives us the clearest picture of the Father and represents him perfectly. I think of the prodigal son story.
God is Love and His love drives ALL our fear away! Inspired by the Shack and 1 John 4 “God is Love” passage, I wrote this song Your Love Drives My Fear Away:
C. Baxter Kruger has written many profound theological books (including THE SHACK REVISITED) and essays on the nature of the Trinity and our interwoven identity in and among the Trinity. John 14:20 was a very profound Scripture for him (and me):
“On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.” John 14:20 NLT
As mentioned in the interview Baxter also wrote a profound article called “God in the hands of angry sinners”. Here is the link for that if you should want to read it… by the way, you want to read it (That was said with a Jedi wave of the hand): https://www.perichoresis.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/God-in-the-Hands-of-Angry-Sinners.pdf
Paul and I talk briefly about the nature of Christ’s Atonement. Which is the main subject of the article above as well. Who didn’t Christ’s atonement cover? What was the point of the cross? To appease an angry God? Nothing could be further than the truth.
Many unfortunately still believe that Jesus came to try to change Gods mind about us when the truth is exactly the opposite, Jesus came to change our minds about who God is. By the way this describes the very definition of repentance (Greek: metanoia = change of mind).
THE WRATH OF GOD = LOVE OF GOD
“This is not a God who will stand idly by while anything that is not of loves kind remains in you” George McDonald
How is the wrath of God is an expression of the Love of God?
God’s wrath is always for you and never against you.
His judgement is a good thing. It is a cleansing thing. His judgement is always redeeming. He judges in favor of his saints and who doesn’t he want for a saint? God is not willing that any should perish but all should come to metanoia (transformation, change of mind, repentance).
Is there a redemptive nature to the Biblical words regarding judgement?
THE CURATIVE AND RESTORATIVE QUALITIES OF “HELL”?
Both Paul and I have read Brad Jersaks book Her Gates Will Never Be Shut: Hell, Hope, and the New Jerusalem. It helps give a much needed perspective on how broken theology has influenced mistakes in how English translations deal with the subject of hell. I will be interviewing Brad Jersak so please subscribe either here or on facebook so you don’t miss it.
We briefly discuss deception by the spirit of the Antichrist and who and what the AntiChrist really is. I loved Pauls response. He talked about how none of us have that kind of clarity about the depth and magnitude of who Jesus is so we are all to one extent or another worshiping a false idea of Jesus. Paul said, “I don’t worry about that. We are all in process and Holy Spirit is working all that out for all of us. It’s not even how I think about Jesus, it’s about the reality of that relationship that has a a hold of me.”
I love how down to earth and human Paul Young is. What an example for “Loving the person you are with in the moment as we go through our life.”
Paul Young Quotes on PARADIGMS:
“When Jesus showed up he was not recognizable inside the paradigm that religion had constructed.”
“Your paradigm will change the words right in front of your face. You will read it the way your system believes it should be rather than what it truly is. How do we read law into words of grace? How do we read performance into unconditional love?”
“God will go down any road to find you. He has come for every last one of his lost kids. Jesus didn’t come to make people Christians or to start a new religion instead he came to destroy religious thinking by introducing relationship. Relationship always moves you away from control and into mystery. The mystery of relationship.”
“It always hurts to get kicked in your paradigm.”
Blogs I have Written about The Shack and Wm Paul Young’s Other Books:
God is Love (Theology Behind the Shack): https://daniellovett.com/2017/04/21/god-is-love/
The Scandal of The Shack (It Changed My Life): https://daniellovett.com/2017/03/26/the-scandal-of-the-shack-it-changed-my-life/
Papa With Scars? (Theology behind The Shack): https://daniellovett.com/2017/03/21/papa-with-scars-theology-behind-shack/
The Shack Revisited: https://daniellovett.com/2017/03/17/10278/
The Shack, a Response to a Critic (Theology behind The Shack): https://daniellovett.com/2017/03/12/the-shack-a-response-to-a-critic/
Universalism? (Theology behind the Shack): https://daniellovett.com/2017/05/17/universalism-theology-behind-the-shack/
William Paul Young, and His New Novel “Eve”: https://daniellovett.com/2015/09/23/william-paul-young-and-his-new-novel-eve/
Cross Roads by William Paul Young (book review): https://daniellovett.com/2013/07/15/cross-roads-by-william-paul-young-book-review/
Barbecue Jesus, “Bon Appetit”: https://daniellovett.com/2017/06/04/barbecue-jesus-bon-appetit/
Check out my previous interview of Lisa Perna which also features her interview of Wm. Paul Young!
Be looking for my upcoming book, The Christian Mystic – Encounters With Jesus and His Love. This book will feature many stories of people I have interviewed (including Brian Simmons and Lisa Perna) who have had amazing life altering encounters with Jesus and His Love!